Finishing BSF compost with redworms

[GW]

I emptied the contents of my BioPod™ after about four months of operation and I'm almost finished removing the larvae. I processed about 100kg/250 lbs of waste during that time and the resulting compost is roughly 4 gallons in volume. It's damp with a mild earthy smell, it's fairly loose in texture and dark brown in color. It contains the bones from approximately 22kg/50lbs of fish.

I'm trying to decide how best to use this material and I'm thinking about finishing the BSF compost with redworms. The problem is that I don't know anything about worms. I'm sure I can learn the basics with a little research but I thought it wise to ask here first, where people might also understand about BSF.

I could use some basic advice about how many worm to get, where to get them from, etc.

This is a 10 gallon/48 liter tote:

[djeung]

i'd suggest obtaining about 1-2 pounds of worms.  You could continue your research using worms instead of grubs, and see how long it would take to convert the biopod remains.  Check out www.redwormcomposting.com for what I'd consider a parallel universe to your BSFL composting.  I'd be curious to see what the final compost looks and feels like!

[GW]

Thanks djeung, I'll take a look at that site.

[BorealWormer]

GW I used 'Worms Eat My Garbage: How to setup and maintain a vermicomposting system' (link) as a reference when I started vermicomposting.

If your aim is to just 'finish' the BSFL castings I think you can probably get away with just adding the worms to your bin as is.  Drainage should not be a problem and if necessary excess moisture can be removed with a turkey baster.

If you want to compost your food waste with worms 'Worms Eat My Garbage' recommends to plan on one square foot of surface area per pound of waste per week. Your waste works out to 12.5lbs/week (without fish) which would require a bin larger than your plastic tote. Designing something to handle liquid drainage would also make your life easier.

[GW]

Thanks BW, I think I only have time to try worms in this one batch of compost. I would love to learn about worms but I have so many things pending with BSF.

What quantity of worms would you use?

Do you have a favorite supplier?

Should I use red worms specifically?

Is it likely I could get the worms froma local bait store?

Do I ask too many questions?

[BorealWormer]

Thanks BW, I think I only have time to try worms in this one batch of compost. I would love to learn about worms but I have so many things pending with BSF.

What quantity of worms would you use?

You can probably go with as little as you want as the population will grow - it will just take longer.

Do you have a favorite supplier?

I got mine locally and it would probably be better for someone geographically closer to you to source your worms.  There's a good list at cityfarmer.org (link)

Should I use red worms specifically?

They're the most common species used.

Is it likely I could get the worms from a local bait store?

They would normally sell them in very small lots but as I mentioned above it would just take longer. You would end up with something you could use for fishing while the grubs are scarce.

Do I ask too many questions?

Never. It's all about the questions 


I would be interested in a comparison of the BSFL castings before and after 'finishing' with worms.

[GW]

Thanks BW,

I think I'll just get  few containers of the medium size worms I would buy for fishing which are about 4-6 inches long.

I'll look into testing the compost at the County extension office before and after adding worms. I can also track the weight of the worms at beginning and end.


PS. I'll reply to your comment on my blog soon. My DSL has been out all weekend and I'm trying to share 26 kbps with my girlfriend. 

[JD2B]

GW mix in a good amount of shredded cardboard (by hand is fine) with the biopod compost.  The biopod compost should be a great supply of bacteria rich food for the worms, but they need places to mate as well, that is where the bedding (newspaper and cardboard) comes in.  Good luck!

[GW]

Thanks JD2B.

[JD2B]

As far as BSFL and Red worms living together, I can attest that they are very able roommates.  My redworm bin had many BSFL starting in early September, and what I noticed was that the worms stayed near the bottom of the bin, while the BSFL stayed near the top where the food was.  I heard people say that the heat from the BSFL can be intolerable to the red worms.  This may explain the initial segregation of the 2 in my bin.  However, as soon as October hit and the BSFL became less active (and the temperate dropped to the 60s and 70s), the worms came out from the bottom and now are in every corner of the bin and are very active!  It looks like my worm population has doubled in the past month and a half.  I am very pleased and it will be interesting to see what happens in the spring when the BSFL become active again.  So far so good. 

[Andrew]

Jerry, any update on this project? How many worms did you get and what else did you put in with the worms? I put a bit of BSFL pudding into my worm bin a few days ago, but it's mixed in with other food and I can't really see if the worms prefer it.

[GW]

Andrew, I have to admit that I've been too busy to spend much time observing the worms. They appear to be healthy and the volume of the residue has shrunk a bit. That's about all I can report for now.

[MoneyMaker]

Hi, i am in the research stages of starting a pet waste removal business. I know there are many such businesses out there but I have the feeling that the waste itself is actually ending up in a landfill or something like that. What I'm trying to figure our is whether or not dog poo is something that could be broken down and eventually made into a good source of saleable compost? I would also consider using bulk restaurant scrap and anything else such as sawdust, horse manure, straw, etc. Is there anyone out there that is using a combination of BSF and vermiculture? My concern lies in the fact that I live in southern Wisconsin (zone 5) where temperatures can dip into the negative  numbers on a regular basis in the winter. Anyone out there tackling such an undertaking? I'm interested in converting tons of waste not just a backyard system. Any input would be appreciated.

[rolivier79]

My initial inclination is that using grubs to compost dog waste is "fine" in theory. The problems with pathogens is a human issue and how they operate the compost bins. If you are running a commercial operation that sometimes depends on temporary non-skilled labor, I would be concerned and make sure people do not touch the content of the bins at any time. Many pet waste pathogens survive in typical compost bin for months, even after there are no visible signs of pet waste detectable. You will notice that must bins designed for pet waste disposal make it very difficult for an operator to actually get inside the unit and harvest compost.

Regarding the BioPod, there is significant scientific knowledge that black soldier fly and other fly larvae reduce pathogens like salmonella and E Coli in the first few days. How pet related pathogens get effected is not fully know at this time.

Personally, I would keep your food waste in separate bins and clearly label those BioPods as "no pet waste ever"... I would then proceed to use some dedicated bins that are not easily accessible by individuals for just pet waste. Depending on the freshness of your waste, the pet waste grubs might not be as large as the food waste grubs.

Overall, you technically can use the BioPod for a reduction in pet waste and some common pathogens better then a regular compost pile. However, due to the nature of the pathogens in pet waste you must keep a level head and remember that some pathogens does not equal ALL pathogens.

Sincerely,

Robert Olivier

[BelgianPup]

Regarding pet waste that contains eggs of parasites ... most kinds of parasites are host-specific (limited to same species of animal), but some can be transmitted to Man.

I'm no expert in this, but a veterinary website I came across some months ago indicated that roundworm eggs expelled in dog and cat feces are easily killed WHEN FRESH.  If they are allowed to mature for a while, their shells become very resilient to many conditions, including extremes of temperature.

So, if anyone is going to use BSF for dog/cat waste disposal, it would probably be best to add FRESH feces rather than old, petrified ones.  Now, this is just my theory, but all mammals have parasites, and that goes for those farm animals (hogs, cattle, horses, chickens) whose manure is routinely processed by BSF.  And, since hogs/pigs have more diseases that can can be transmitted to Man than most other animals (incl. housepets), I wouldn't be surprised if their parasites are, too.

Use of care and common sense will reduce most problems from most things, and I'm sure BSF are no different.

Probably the biggest thing to keep in mind is not to use BSF to reduce waste from a certain species, then feed those BSF back to the same species.  If you've got chickens and your neighbor has hogs (and you both use BSF), trade larvae.

Sue