OF COURSE!!!

[BelgianPup]

I swear, if I had a brain, I would be dangerous!

I live south of Seattle.  I've seen BSFs around here (thought they were wasps  ). 

This fall/winter, I've been thinking about how best to maintain a colony over the cold months, when I have a colony to maintain.  Cool bedroom?  Garage?  Unheated greenhouse?  How do they survive by themselves?

A few days ago I 'inherited' the neighbor's compost pile after they abandoned the house.  Today I was forking the stuff into a wheelbarrow and trundling it over to my place.  Picking through the first few loads to remove the large sticks, rocks, plastic lids, plastic toys, plastic wrap, etc, I lifted out some egg shells.  I don't like whole egg shells in my compost.  I wash and dry mine, then grind them up and then add to the garden.

When I opened the flattened eggshells (don't want to waste worms) with compost inside, guess what I found?

Do you need three guesses?  You don't?!

Yes, BSF larvae.  They're brown and probably in or near the crawl-off stage, about 5/8" or so long.  LIVE BSF larvae, even after our recent cold period of below-freezing temps, 8ºF.

Most of them were inside layered material, eggshells, semi-composted and not-very composted cabbage hearts, etc.  There were even some in a 6" sheet of plastic (wrapper type plastic).

Well, it does make sense, doesn't it?  The female lays her eggs in conditions approximating the BioPod:  decomposing vegetation.  As the weather cools down, their maturity slows, and they find some kind of sheltered place to spend the winter.  In the PNW, even if it freezes pretty hard, compost piles don't freeze to their centers.  Warmish, comfy.

This casual conical pile is about three feet high, and I've been forking the stuff off one side.  I doubt that I've gone even a foot from the surface.  The compost pile is partially finished and damp.

Tomorrow, I'll be back over there, looking more carefully.

So picture this in relatively mild winter areas (wherever a compost pile wouldn't freeze too deep, I guess):  make a compost pile later in summer or fall specifically for the BSF.  After the weather starts to chill, don't turn the pile anymore, but you could continue to add materials to the pile (acting as bedding and insulation).  For earlier metamorphasizing (if that is really a word), build the compost pile in an unheated greenhouse, or build a casual greenhouse over the compost pile. 

I am filling a 12" x 3.5' metal circle with this compost.  Then I will take some lengths of 1/8" diameter fencing wire (I have some) and form two or three arcs, with the ends jammed down inside the edge of the circle. 

Then I will cover it with clear heavy plastic.  To vent or not to vent?  Theoretically, the moisture inside the plastic should have the same effect as too much moisture in the BioPod:  vertical crawl-off, so I will know when they're warming up.

What do you think?  I'm not being as crazy as usual, am I? 

Sue

[GW]

Good for you BP!

I think everything you said sounds reasonable and I look forward to hearing about your future exploits.

[Andrew]

Sue, congratulations on hitting the motherload!  It will be interesting to see when this wild population begins to get active, mature and hatch as BSF.

Andrew

[BelgianPup]

Since I am very new to this, I'm looking for a little advice...

Do you think there is a need to ventilate my little improvised-over-the-pile greenhouse?  This little 'greenhouse' will only stand maybe a foot or more above the 12" metal ring, as we can have some rather severe wind problems here in winter.  The current contents have been rained on and are quite damp.  Would excess moisture/mold be an issue?

When the weather warms up in spring, do you think when the larvae hatch into adults and I open the 'greenhouse', they will survive in the cooler (maybe much cooler) outside temperatures?

Also, I am considering collecting larvae into a two-gallon plastic bucket also filled with the same warming compost, covering it with fine mesh fabric, and burying up to nearly the rim back in the center of the same compost ring/greenhouse.  I am going to attempt to build a larger simple greenhouse (~7 ft tall) on the east side of my house, and I was thinking when the weather warms up (W. WA style, at least), I could move the bucket (it won't be full) of larvae into this greenhouse and provide a 20-gallon plastic tub as an improvised bait source/incubator for the next generation, that will also keep the adults confined.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Sue

[GW]

Do you think there is a need to ventilate my little improvised-over-the-pile greenhouse?  This little 'greenhouse' will only stand maybe a foot or more above the 12" metal ring, as we can have some rather severe wind problems here in winter.  The current contents have been rained on and are quite damp.  Would excess moisture/mold be an issue?

The main reason to ventilate a BSF composter is to allow excess heat to escape. If heat isn't an issue in your case then you would only need enough ventilation to allow the larvae to breathe. I think something would have to be pretty air tight to suffocate BSF larvae.

I think that to BSF larvae "excess moisture" is only a concern when it leads to flooded conditions that encourage anaerobic bacteria. I can't say for certain but I would guess that BSF grubs will eat mold. Either way I doubt the mold would harm them and the larvae would quickly eat whatever the mold was growing on.

When the weather warms up in spring, do you think when the larvae hatch into adults and I open the 'greenhouse', they will survive in the cooler (maybe much cooler) outside temperatures?

Either way they will only live 5-8 days by current estimates. The real question is will they successfully reproduce. We know this happens in the 80's and 90's and it probably happens in the 70's given the fact the BSF are present in WA. Below that temperature I doubt you would get reproduction.

Also, I am considering collecting larvae into a two-gallon plastic bucket also filled with the same warming compost, covering it with fine mesh fabric, and burying up to nearly the rim back in the center of the same compost ring/greenhouse.  I am going to attempt to build a larger simple greenhouse (~7 ft tall) on the east side of my house, and I was thinking when the weather warms up (W. WA style, at least), I could move the bucket (it won't be full) of larvae into this greenhouse and provide a 20-gallon plastic tub as an improvised bait source/incubator for the next generation, that will also keep the adults confined.

I'm not sure that I understand what you're trying to do with this design BP. If you're trying to hold BSF in the adult stage you're limited by the short lifespan. BSF can pupate and emerge in the winter under certain circumstances, but if you don't have the larger greenhouse set up I wouldn't encourage that because I doubt they will reproduce.

 

[BelgianPup]

"I'm not sure that I understand what you're trying to do with this design BP. If you're trying to hold BSF in the adult stage you're limited by the short lifespan. BSF can pupate and emerge in the winter under certain circumstances, but if you don't have the larger greenhouse set up I wouldn't encourage that because I doubt they will reproduce.

I was thinking of collecting as many as I could and putting them into the bucket, then burying the bucket in the existing compost.  I am thinking that the bucket would just confine them until I get the greenhouse built, and it would be easier to move the bucket into the greenhouse than it would be to move the entire compost pile.

By moving the bucket into the greenhouse, I could confine the grubs I can find.  I am thinking of putting something that has leafed out into the greenhouse (somewhere I read that they mate around bushes).  When they turn into adults, they can breed in the greenhouse, lay eggs in the greenhouse, and be confined to the greenhouse so I can build up a supply.

I could buy a pound or so of them from you in spring, but I am wondering if the BSF would be more cold-hardy if I were to create my own stock from local survivors.

Am I over-complicating this whole thing in my excitement of finding the grubs?

Sue

[GW]

I was thinking of collecting as many as I could and putting them into the bucket, then burying the bucket in the existing compost.  I am thinking that the bucket would just confine them until I get the greenhouse built, and it would be easier to move the bucket into the greenhouse than it would be to move the entire compost pile.

Containing BSF grubs under warm humid conditions is challenging. It might be best to let them stay cool and semi dormant until spring.

I could buy a pound or so of them from you in spring, but I am wondering if the BSF would be more cold-hardy if I were to create my own stock from local survivors.

Your local BSF may be better adapted to the cooler weather, as a layperson I can only guess. I usually wouldn't recommend a starter kit to someone who already has BSF, but given the short and cool mating season in your area it might be beneficial for achieving the maximum density as early as you can.

[BelgianPup]

Just an update on my collection of BSF from the neighbor's compost piles.

There are actually two compost piles, a working one and a finished one.  I am finding the live BSF larvae in the working (and still somewhat odiferous) pile.  Most of them seem to be in the top 6-8" or so of the pile.  They seem to like just about the same conditions as the earthworms do (there are a LOT of earthworms), and sometimes I find them 'nestled' together.  The colors of the BSF vary from tan to brown.

I've been looking through the finished compost and am finding mostly empty BSF shells with a hole at one end, and not an exceptional number of them.

I'm not sure if the grubs I'm collecting in a 3# butter tub are able to eat or not.  I have some more or less finished compost in the bottom of the container, then grubs, a mashed banana, a mat of somewhat stinky/gooey grass clippings, and a cover of several layers of regular corrugated cardboard.  The top is open, but I am mostly burying the tub in the covered plastic tote of chicken feed pellets as insulation.  The tote sits outdoors on the covered raised deck where it's handy.  Temps have been ranging from 30ºF to 55ºF for the last few weeks (the time period I've been collecting the grubs).  The grubs still move, but very slowly. 

I have a 12" x 36"+ sheet metal circle almost filled with the ripest of the compost, and probably quite a few grubs.  I made three arcs of heavy reel wire (the kind used to stabilize chain link fencing) inside the perimeter and then covered the wire with clear greenhouse plastic.  Just before doing this, I stuck a compost thermometer into the center of the compost; with some difficulty, I can read the dial, and it seems to be holding steady near 40ºF for now.

I haven't progressed much with the building of the greenhouse due to excessive work hours.  I hope I can get something up that is large enough to be useful for the hatching and mating of the adults, with an enclosed tub of compost for egg-laying.  I found some corrugated white plastic in a trash can in the form of a discarded sign, and intend to use that for an egg-laying site on top of the compost.

More breaking news as it happens.... 

Sue