Author Topic: Processing pet wastes - the straight poop  (Read 2517 times)

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Offline GW

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Processing pet wastes - the straight poop
« on: August 20, 2008, 07:21:44 AM »
Sorry about the title of the thread, couldn't help myself.  ::)

ProtaCulture, the BioPod manufacturer, states that BioPods are not intended for processing pet feces. We know that BSF larvae readily consume feces and have been tested extensively for processing many types of manure. I believe the reason ProtaCulture is taking this position about adding pet waste to BioPods is due to liability issues. In our society it would be foolish to suggest that anyone handle feces under any condition. This is a guess on my part and I have not spoken about this with anyone from ProtaCulture.

I've been culturing BSF for about 1 1/2 years and I once added dog poop to my BSF unit. The larvae processed it easily but I didn't continue adding it because it made working with the larvae less enjoyable. When the colony was being fed table scraps I enjoyed closely observing the larvae as they attacked new food scraps, but the dog poop made that much less pleasant. BSF larvae can process food scraps before they begin to smell bad, but poop already smells when you put it in and it will continue to smell until it is processed.

Having said that, I believe one could use a BioPod to process pet waste relatively safely if the pets involved don't roam freely. A dog that is contained in a fenced yard or a pen will have less opportunity to come into contact with pathogens than a free ranging animal. If you use a BioPod this way I recommend that you handle the larvae as minimally as possible and be careful to sanitize yourself after any contact with the BioPod. I keep Purell hand sanitizer around for this purpose. If it were me, I would not collect the larvae in the collection bucket. Instead I would let them exit the BioPod and crawl away to pupate. I've released 10's of thousands of prepupal larvae on my property and they have never become a nuisance and you rarely even see an adult because of their life cycle and habits. You could attach a pvc pipe to the exit hole of the BioPod where the collection bucket usually goes, and direct the larvae to a specific place if you wanted to. The route and length of the pipe is flexible because BSF larvae will crawl up to 300 feet (90 meters) and they can climb up a 45° incline.

Again, these are just my personal observations. As a BioPod dealer I don't recommend that anyone use a BioPod to process feces under any conditions.
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Offline rolivier79

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Re: Processing pet wastes - the straight poop
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2008, 05:24:33 PM »
You are 100% correct. Handling fecal matter is never without risk.

Offline vetrider

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Re: Processing pet wastes - the straight poop
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2009, 05:10:30 PM »
Sure that manipulating fecal materials is dangerous without safe condition of working, consider this:
food safety and bacteriological considerations in using manure fed Hermetia prepupae are favorable. Hermetia larval activity significantly reduced E. coli 0157:H7 and Salmonella enterica in hen manure (Erickson et al. 2004). There is a substantial body of scientific literature on using various fly larvae (face fly, house fly, blow flies and the black soldier fly), reared in animal manure as animal feed.

Researchers in China, the USSR, the USA, Mexico, and Eastern Europe have fed these to poultry, swine, shrimp, several species of fish, turtles and frogs; with no reported health problems. Researchers in Chile have studied value recovery from swine manure producing house flies as a feedstuff. They reported finding anti-microbial factors in the house fly larvae. These natural antibiotics may reduce the chance of the feedstuff transmitting pathogens, and actually improve animal health, while reducing pathogen content in the digested manure that may be used to fertilize food crops.

Bacterial interactions of maggots in manure and in wound cleaning appear to be similar. The beneficial effect of maggots is very well studied and understood in medicine in the discipline of “maggot debridement therapy” (MDT). This life saving therapy is seeing more use with the increasing prevalence of drug resistant bacterial infections (Sherman and Wyle. 1996).

The sterile maggots used in this therapy are believed to enhance the healing of otherwise intractible wounds in several ways, the chief one being elimination of pyogenic bacteria. Kosta et al. (2001) reported progressively greater destruction of green fluorescent protein-producing E. coli as they progressed through the gut of sterile grown Lucilia sericata, a maggot commonly used in MDT. A similar antagonism seems to occur between Hermetia larvae (and other maggots) in manure. 

Offline Tarvus

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Re: Processing pet wastes - the straight poop
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2009, 04:58:30 AM »
I routinely process the waste from three small dogs and a pet parrot in my BioPod.  It generally disappears within a few hours.  A light sprinkling of coffee grounds to cover the feces seems to eliminate any odor.

Offline lacabriole

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Re: Processing pet wastes - the straight poop
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2009, 01:35:06 PM »
I think BSF can be used to handle human waste, i.e., humanure.  For some months now I have fed humanure to the BSF.  I haven’t had a bad odor from this.  I plan to feed the residue from the BSF to red worms as a final processing of humanure as explained below.   I separate the urine from the feces and feed the urine to my compost pile and parts of my garden.  This may seem over the top to some, but consider the following:

These sites describe the use of urine.  I became interested when I ran across the use of urine in Mexico described in this web site.

http://journeytoforever.org/garden_con-mexico.html

A further expansion of the use is given here.

http://www.howtodothings.com/home-garden/how-to-use-urine-as-a-fertilizer

There are any number of sites about urine use, but these two give the gist of what it is about.  There is a book called Liquid Gold written by Carol Steinfeld on the subject for those who want to further pursue this.

This led me to the book by Joseph Jenkins, Humanure.  A hard copy can be bought or a free e-book can be downloaded at this site. 

http://humanurehandbook.com/contents.html

Instead of using the composting process used by Jenkins, I wanted to see if the BSF could be used to greatly speed up the process from a year or two to just a few months.  The potential problems of pathogens should be handled with the red worms as per the following site which gives the results of successfully using vermiculture to process humane waste to safely achieve pathogen stabilization.  That is why I will feed the residue of the BSF as a further precaution and to also further refine the BSF grub residue.  This process might be considered for pet wastes as well.  As for the harvested grubs I am also looking at the feasibility of using the oil from the grubs to produce biodiesel.  I first have to get the initial process in hand, but that is in my ultimate plan. 

http://www.wormswrangler.com/articles/achieving_pathogen-stabilization_using_vermicomposting.html

This is still a work in process.  There may be a yuck factor here but if you can handle BSF grubs it is not too much of a reach to go here, lol.

De

Offline GW

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Re: Processing pet wastes - the straight poop
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2009, 04:54:38 PM »
I think BSF can be used to handle human waste, i.e., humanure.

Hi De,

BSF can certainly process human waste and have always done so. In areas with BSF populations they have traditionally been present in outhouses or "privies". One common name for BSF in the south is "privy fly" for this reason. This arrangement benefits both human and fly because the BSF repel disease carrying species and keep odors to a minimum.

I can't recall the exact quote but somewhere I read the statement that adding urine (virtually sterile) and feces (toxic) to a large quantity of potable water as a method of dealing with waste is a ridiculously wasteful system.
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Offline Tarvus

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Re: Processing pet wastes - the straight poop
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2009, 08:42:04 AM »

As for the harvested grubs I am also looking at the feasibility of using the oil from the grubs to produce biodiesel.  I first have to get the initial process in hand, but that is in my ultimate plan. 


This is really an interesting concept!

I'm interested in hearing your results with a process to render the oil.  Estimating a dry matter content of 44 percent and a fat percentage (dry matter basis) of 34 percent, the theoretical yield (by weight of live, mature grubs) should be right at 15 percent or 2.4 ounces per pound of grubs.

I had thought about doing some experimenting myself with BSF mature grub maceration in a blender, mixing with a bit of water then heating the grub slurry to render the fat (similar to rendering tallow from beef).  I don't know the freezing point of BSF oil/fat, but perhaps refrigerating it would solidify it to separate the fat from the solids and water.  Even if it doesn't freeze, the oil should float on the water surface making some sort of mechanical separation possible.  There may be chemical additives that could "dry" any remaining water from the BSF oil.

Unfortunately, as with many alternative energy sources, I doubt the energy extracted from the BSF biodiesel would exceed the energy input, (power for maceration, heat for rendering and power for cooling/separating) plus energy cost of the alcohol and chemicals required to produce the biodielse from the BSF oil.  But who knows until somebody tries?

Assuming a 97% oil to biodiesel yield, thats 2.33 ounces of biodielsel per pound.  It would require just over 55 pounds of live larvae per gallon of biodiesel assuming optimal efficiency.  Unfortunately optimal efficiency is rarely possible, so add a fudge factor to that number for a more realistic estimate. 

Some sort of human or animal powered maceration and perhaps some sort of solar heating mechanism might make the process economically viable at some scale.  Besides which, the humans and animals involved will produce "food" for the BSF thereby at least partially closing the loop.

Let us know what you come up with!

Offline GW

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Re: Processing pet wastes - the straight poop
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2009, 10:21:30 AM »
Here's a little reading on the subject:

Quote
There is a potential to recover energy from the processing of swine manure with black soldier fly. Since the prepupae have a high fat or oil content (Table 2), this oil might be used as an energy source. If swine manure were converted to black soldier fly prepupae at 16% of the manure dry matter, as shown above, and they contained 30% or more oil, separation of the oil followed by conversion to biodiesel would yield as much energy as methane fermentation of that same manure (Tom Richard, personal communication). After oil recovery (using an expeller process), the remaining high protein meal would likely have greater value as a feed than the whole dried prepupae. This would be especially true if black soldier fly were used as a bulk protein supplement, since high levels of inclusion of dried prepupae result in higher than optimum levels of fat in diets.
As noted, the cuticle or skin of the prepupae, like that of all arthropods, contains chitin. If black soldier fly were processed to recover oil, it might also be possible to add additional steps for recovery of chitin and chitosan. Such products have uses of significant value in several industries (http://members.tripod.com/~Dalwoo/use.htm, for examples). A refined animal protein, as would be produced by removal of the oil and chitin from black soldier fly, would likely have significantly greater feeding and economic value than the original dried insect larvae.

source: http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/waste_mgt/smithfield_projects/phase2report05/cd,web%20files/A2.pdf

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Offline BorealWormer

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Re: Processing pet wastes - the straight poop
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2009, 08:31:23 PM »
As for the harvested grubs I am also looking at the feasibility of using the oil from the grubs to produce biodiesel.  I first have to get the initial process in hand, but that is in my ultimate plan.

Along the same line:

EcoSystem uses fly larva to make MAGFUEL (link)

Offline GW

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Re: Processing pet wastes - the straight poop
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2009, 06:11:16 AM »
BW, I think EcoSystem dropped the Magfuel idea. In fact, I get the impression that they're more interested in getting investors than they are in actually producing something. It seems they dropped the BSF idea when it didn't sell and now they're promoting the use of corn. I've been watching them for a long time and everything they say about their company has always referred to what they're planning on doing, someday.

Quote
EcoSystem will be focused on the operation and development of assets and is actively looking for opportunities in which to deploy its technologies. To more effectively manage these opportunities, EcoSystem intends to utilize the services of Global Ethanol to manage and market all its assets and products. Additional information on EcoSystem's planned Products & Services and Production Facilities will be provided here as appropriate.

source: http://www.eco-system.com/productsservices.php

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Offline BorealWormer

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Re: Processing pet wastes - the straight poop
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2009, 07:23:19 AM »
Thanks GW.  I hope lacabriole will be more successful.

Offline efaure

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Re: Processing pet wastes - the straight poop
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2010, 02:46:25 PM »
And lacabriole, have you had any success? ???

Offline JojoJaro

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Re: Processing pet wastes - the straight poop
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2010, 05:48:06 AM »
BW, I think EcoSystem dropped the Magfuel idea.

Wasn't the Biodiesel idea dropped because BSF prepupae is more valuable as animal feed than Biodiesel.

Offline blist

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Re: Processing pet wastes - the straight poop
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2010, 12:09:58 PM »
I'm new here but reading through threads trying to learn as much as I can because I plan on ordering a biopod (I guess a biopod plus now).

I was interested in processing pet feces and was wondering why the manual said "exclusive" next to that.  We actually feed our dogs raw so their poop is very small, compact and odorless anyway.

Offline Lumenos

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Re: Processing pet wastes - the straight poop
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2010, 03:51:26 PM »
If you use a BioPod this way I recommend that you handle the larvae as minimally as possible and be careful to sanitize yourself after any contact with the BioPod. I keep Purell hand sanitizer around for this purpose.

I think one of the biggest threats with feces of dog, cat, or raccoon would be toxocaridae. This is a parasitic roundworm (nematode) whose eggs, bleach will not kill. To kill the eggs requires iodine, "alcohol", heat, high-heat composting, or specialized chemicals. Purell hand sanitizer has alcohol, but I'm not sure which type is needed.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 03:53:03 PM by Lumenos »